Can you be legally self sufficient as a community?

In one of my blog posts (http://huanui.blogspot.com/2011/09/self-sufficient-as-community-is-this.html) I raise the question if it is possible to be legally self-sufficient as a community. I believe that based on all the regulations which do not allow us to legally share food in a community a self-sufficient community is not possible without the investment of a lot of money to pay for compliance. I am shocked that a government is obviously not supporting  self-sufficient communities. 

What do you think? I know a lot of people don't care about regulations. Is this a way? Do we have to cheat and brake laws to form self-sufficient communities? What can we do? 

 

Cheers

 

Peter

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  • Thanks to Roxy for pointing out this thread to me :-) What bugs me about this bill is how little discussion there is in the mainstream media about it. I learnt about it only through a friend who had read something about it on stuff.co.nz. I listen to National Radio at work most days and if they mentioned it I missed it and they are generally quite good at keeping you informed. I did e-mail them about it, but no reaction so far. I guess I failed to mention funny facts about puppies or opening jam jars...I hope they pick it up after the rugby and election are over.

    I spent one evening trying to read up on the bill and still feel under-informed. Worse, I e-mailed my MP to express my opposition to the bill and after making sure I actually was in his electorate (no use wasting time on someone who can't vote for you, eh?), he sent me an answer that made me think he knew hardly any more than I do. He actually told me the bill had gone through, then his assistant told me it hadn't yet. The assistant send me what seems like an excerpt of the bill that mainly deals with sausage sizzles and suggested I make a submission :-P

    Anyway, it seems like the worst bits of the bill have been amended, but I don't really like that tactic: You introduce a real shocker of a bill, see if people will notice, then tweak things so that it's a bit more acceptable and they'll swallow it because it could have been so much worse (like with the new copyright laws, also something that came out of the US) Or maybe I'm just a cynic.

    For those people who think we are getting a bit hysteric about this thing, maybe I can give you some ethnic background (tongue firmly in cheek). Like Peter I'm German, we like following the rules, so it really annoys us if we have to break them just to go about our normal lives :-)) But secondly and more importantly our dear mother land had some rough patches last century concerning democracy, so Germans have (hopefully) learned that you have to nip bad stuff in the bud, it won't just go away if you ignore it. That funny little guy with the bad hair cut didn't mellow out when we made him chancellor and Monsanto won't suddenly start to protect the genetic heritage of our seeds and look out for the small farmer if we just open the door wide enough for them. I don't really enjoy politics, I much rather spend my spare time reading about chickens or veggies :-) but living in a democracy is a privilege that we do have to guard at times.

    • You've made some excellent points, Hanna and very eloquently, if I may say so.  The trouble with NZers is that we have been so over-legislated for so long that we've become almost immune to new laws.  They come; they go, when a new government is elected.  Now, I realise that this Bill has a hidden agenda, namely, bringing NZ in to line with WTO (& Monsanto) dictates, which is cause enough for worry.  What no-one has so far mentioned on this forum (that I've noticed), is that the Bill has already passed its first reading in the House.

      Last time something like this happened, it was the GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), the precursor to the WTO.  This was sneaked in under cover of the America's Cup, the year NZ won. It was a paper of at least 1600 pages and contained some scary stuff.  My husband cared enough to put a full-page ad in the paper to alert people, for all the good it did!  Can we expect them  to push this one through under urgency in the middle of RWC hysteria?  Who knows....

      Meanwhile, we'll just get on with our lives as best we can and try not to fall foul of the 'food police'.

  • oops I meant to send you a reply but have somehow created a new topic. Bugger. That'll be a bit out of context. Thank you for alerting us to this situation. I had no idea.
  • This just came in via email from Sue.Kedgley@parliament.govt.nz: 

    Govt needs to rethink Food Bill's reach

    Home gardeners, people who barter or swap food, sell food directly to consumers, and small growers, should be exempt from food regulations contained in a new Food Bill, Green Party food spokesperson Sue Kedgley said today.

    The Food Bill is due to have its second reading when then new Parliament reconvenes. It would require people who trade or barter food to operate under a registered food control plan or a national programme.

    "There is growing public concern that provisions in the Food Bill could result in excessive regulations and restrictions on home gardeners and small growers," Ms Kedgley said.

    Ms Kedgley said home gardeners, people who barter food or sell it directly to consumers, should not have been captured in the Bill.

    "I am calling on the Minister to allay people's fears by reassuring New Zealanders that these groups will be exempt from the provisions of the Bill."

    Ms Kedgley said it was excessive, bureaucratic and unnecessary to impose regulations on home gardeners and those who swap food.

    "These provisions are not going to help New Zealander's eat more healthily.

    "We should be doing everything we can to encourage people to grow and swap food, not discourage local food production by imposing potentially onerous regulations on home gardeners.

    "For economic and health reasons we should be supporting community gardens, farmers markets, community supported agriculture, bartering and food swapping, and any other system of local food production that helps improve the country's food security and resilience."

    Ms Kedgley said if the Government did not agree to exempt home gardeners and small growers from the bill, the Green Party would be unlikely to support it.

    This is good news. And I strongly believe that these things are triggered by discussions we and others have out in the public. And this is one of the things we need to do more, have public discussions where we openly and frankly voice our opinion. Because lets be honest, politicians will only do something if they have to. No matter what party they belong to. The Green Party actually supported the initial draft of the food bill. Now due to open public discussions they see it worthwhile to take a more critical stand. 

     

    Cheers

    Peter

    • This is awesome news Peter. You've made my day :)

      How long b4 we know weather or not they will remove 'small growers and home owners' from the bill?

  • Do you guys know about the sit in at Wall St, America.  Check out this site for info and access to signing their woldwide petition. You can see how many others (over 434,000 so far from all over the world) have signed it and you can read their comments and add your own.  You can see via video link what is happening there at the moment.  Some one was singing the Bob Dylon song-the times they are a changing.  Absolutely amazing.  http://www.avaaz.org/en/the_world_vs_wall_st/?tta Hope that's right, am unsure about the underscores or whether they are just gaps.  Well worth A look.

  • As said previously there are plenty of legal ways to make any system work for you as an individual. As fast as any legal system changes, there will be a way around found.

    After all the profession of accountancy is mainly to find the best way to legally avoiding paying taxes.
    • This conversation is about community not individuals
  • Why not Barter is the oldest form of Trade. This Country over legistrates. 

    Igf it take breaking rules to be self sufficient then I say break them!

    • But why do we have to break a law to be self-sufficient? What with people who are not comfortable to break laws? Why not fight against the laws instead? 

       

      Cheers

       

      Peter

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